Does The Constitution Grant The Right Of All Americans To Own And Carry firearms? - Page 6 - The Drunken stepFORUM - A place to discuss your worthless opinions

Randal Graves · #51 11-23-2008, 10:50 PM

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This is a miserable argument. How many of the amendments have no restrictions added by court rulings? The 1st amendment makes no mention of restricting free speech. In fact, it explicitly says that freedom of speech will not be restricted by the government. But what happens if a TV show said the word "fuck" for an entire 30 minute broadcast. I'm pretty sure there would be a huge FCC fine, which is a restriction of free speech.

Kyle E. Coyote · #52 11-23-2008, 11:02 PM

Although a bad argument as far as gun control goes, I have to say that I agree the courts shouldn't be able to put restrictions on our rights. They were given to us without qualification, and they should stay that way.

*Feigns anger* And fuck the FCC! If I want to see Charlotte Ross' bare ass on primetime TV, I should be allowed to. I pay my taxes!

The good 'ole days, brought to you by ABC and viewers like you:

Randal Graves · #53 11-23-2008, 11:14 PM

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I tend to think this is a good idea in theory, but will probably just lead to trouble if it were reality. Not that it matters. There is nothing in life that comes with no restrictions anymore.

TheDrunkElf · #54 11-24-2008, 12:16 AM

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nice try, but apples to oranges...

court cases have laid the path.... The SCOTUS has ruled that citizens have the right to possess firearms, with restrictions... Not the Constitution.. The same way that restricting a person's use of "free speech" to yell fire in a crowed mall/movie theater is not protected speech..

1938 - US vs Miller - determined that a sawed off shotgun was not a militia weapon. And that a sawed off shot gun was illegal..

1968 - Gun Control Act - Set the standards/restrictions... Also set the restrictions on mail order guns (5 years after Oswald) .. The ATF begin it's existence

As for your tv shows, blame the public that sets the decency limits...

The courts have held that indecent material is protected by the First Amendment and cannot be banned entirely. It may, however, be restricted in order to avoid its broadcast during times of the day when there is a reasonable risk that children may be in the audience.

Consistent with a federal indecency statute and federal court decisions interpreting the statute, the Commission adopted a rule that broadcasts -- both on television and radio -- that fit within the indecency definition and that are aired between 6:00 a.m. and 10:00 p.m. are prohibited and subject to indecency enforcement action.

step234 · #55 11-24-2008, 12:20 PM

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Ok, both of those reports basically say that in countries were guns are more freely available there is less incidents of violent crime, and not knowing any different I'll give you that, and I agree that its probably because the average criminal doesn't want to risk being shot while robbing a 7/11

but....

of the 30, 000 people killed by firearms in America every year only a very small proportion of them are a result of a random crime. The top reasons are
1. Domestic disturbance gone too far
2. Accidents
That's thousands of deaths that wouldn't have happened if a gun wasn't there.

Violent crime comes further down the list and then with regard to violent crime, the most likely victim is another criminal. Some drug dealer shoots another drug dealer or its a gang member getting shot. Despite what it seems to show on TV, the chances of random Joe Sixpack being killed as a result of a violent crime ( an armed robbery etc) is really very small. The amount of times a gun is actually used for personal protection/safety is minuscule. So unless you are a gang member or part of the mafia, carrying a gun so you are prepared for a violent situation is like carrying a lightening conductor so you are ready in case a storm rolls over, ordinary decent people minding their own business just don't need it.

A final point, if you do find yourself in a 7/11 while it is being held-up and you shoot the guy, chances are you'll be heading to jail

Kyle E. Coyote · #56 11-24-2008, 02:17 PM

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.....

step234 · #57 11-24-2008, 04:49 PM

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So far you've been able to back up everything you said and you've answered all the points very well, but this bit is just made up nonsense.

Are you seriously trying to say that guns save over 30,000 lives a year? Show me anywhere that even comes close to claiming that and I'll be happy to stand corrected. Even in the two magazines you mention, in the best case scenario, only total 1,200 stories a year

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Sorry, using more made up facts only discredit your argument. Cars kill about 43,000 a year

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That's only 13,000 more, and people actually need their cars, they need them to earn their money, to buy their goods, to be able to socialize with others. To the average person in the modern world a car is a necessity
People don't need guns. They want their guns, they enjoy their guns they gain pleasure from using or owning a gun, but this is still far from needing one. To the average person in the modern world a gun is a lifestyle choice, no more no less.

And thats fine by me, if you want a gun, get a gun. But be honest about it, you're getting it because its fun and you want one, its not because of some ideology stance on the merits of the constitution or because you need it.

step234 · #58 11-24-2008, 05:15 PM

Kyle,
I'm not trying to be a dick, I've read your answers carefully and I'm genuinely interested in your side of the story.
I've a question for you, its related to your atheist thread in the other section.
How can someone raised a Baptist and with a genuine fear of hell even contemplate killing someone?
For me, a lapsed catholic, 99.9% atheist and a total non-believer in hell, killing someone is still in mortal sin territory and something I couldn't contemplate.
How can your religious beliefs (even if you are questioning them right now) and your stance on guns go hand in hand?
Going out armed means you are prepared for and capable of killing someone, does that not go against everything Jesus ever taught?

(again, I'm not being a dick, I would genuinely like to hear your answer on this)

shadowr434 · #59 11-24-2008, 08:05 PM

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Actually,In Connecticut the background check is thorough however after that the rules regarding carrying are about the same as yours as long as its concealed.

Kyle E. Coyote · #60 11-24-2008, 11:14 PM

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Professor Michael S. Brown of Stanford did a study and reported that an estimated 6,000 people a year in the USA are saved by killing an attacker. Another 8,000 are saved by simply shooting or shooting at the attacker. That's 14,000 right there. Now add on the number of times a gun is used as a deterrent (a number virtually impossible to count, but surely well over 15,000), and you have your lives saved. So yeah, I would say that. Of course it isn't as concrete as your statistics, but in all fairness the lives guns save is nearly immesurable.

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You're right... but I was talking worldwide, where 1,200,000 are killed by cars each year. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

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I know you're not being a dick, man, it's all good. Even if you were, that's what the internet is for.

I'll answer with this: "...And he who has no sword, let him sell his cloak and buy one." -Jesus Christ, Luke 22:36

I've always believed that if someone was evil enough to try to kill an innocent person, they have no right to life. Do onto others, you know? I rationalize it this way; if every terrorist I killed in Iraq could have potentially went on to kill some of our boys, or innocent civillians, then what I did was worth it.

As for the two times I've had to use my gun on the home front, one time I didn't shoot and the other I did. The first time I heard that the guy I didn't kill (while trying to abduct a teenage girl) killed four people a week later. The second time that memory motivated me to shoot. I saw a gun and that was enough for me. I don't take any of what I've done lightly, but if I've saved even a single innocent life by taking the lives of a criminal and a few terrorists, then it's all worth it.