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  #11  
Old 08-03-2009, 06:20 PM
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I'm a very rare Federalist. Just sayin'
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  #12  
Old 08-03-2009, 07:24 PM
Bong O. Boi Bong O. Boi is offline
i have never seen a vagina, but at least i dont live with my mom
 

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Is there something wrong with bias? If you're not biased, you're not paying attention. Your bias is obvious by highlighting "church" and other things I can't recall. I'm not religious at all, but I know where my political bread is buttered. I'm not a Repub, but I'm a small government, low taxes kind of guy. Repubs and Evangelicals further that agenda. Both sides have some distasteful to me ideas. But I'm about the low taxes and small government. If I have to hold my nose to get there, that's fine.

Bias or no bias, this group read the bill, which from the sounds of things few Congressmen have done. They brought up many, many issues that need to be addressed. They're in the bill, no matter who reads it. This group is reporting the truth and telling you on what page and line it's on. Rather than saying "Hey, I should look into this", you call out the messenger. Which shows your bias.

There's nothing wrong with bias, or being judgemental, or making choices. We're all biased, we're all judgemental. It comes with the freewill we have as human beings. The Left is biased for the bill. The Right is biased against. And the Great Unwashed Masses don't care one way or the other, as long as Two and A Half Men is on.

As for Obamacare, I hated it when it was Hillarycare. I find it insane that people are willing to turn over their health care to the same Government that managed to fuck up the Cash for Clunkers deal. In less than two weeks. One billion down, give them aother 2 billion. Chump change, no?

I have no problem with working out something for folks who, for whatever reason, can't afford insurance and don't get it through their jobs. But no has, to at least to my satisfaction, why it has to apply to everyone. Why does it have to apply to me? I love my plan at work. Wouldn't trade it for the world. Especially not for some clunky government run operation. I've seen Health Canada in action. No thank you.

Red
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  #13  
Old 08-03-2009, 07:26 PM
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I respect that.

Welcome to the "I hate the America that it's becoming" club
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  #14  
Old 08-03-2009, 07:31 PM
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I am trying to organize a DSF "Tea Party".

You should help.

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  #15  
Old 08-03-2009, 07:45 PM
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My point is this, they read it possibly, I don't know I wasn't there. You're okay with getting 3rd party information as long as it furthers your views and we're all free to do that. I don't believe in other people telling me whats wrong, if I have to ability (and I do because the bill is online) why wouldn't I make the effort to read it myself? I'm a small government guy too, but I'm all too observant of commentary being construed as fact. Why I was pointing out where this was coming from was because when a researcher already has a preconceived idea of the result, what are they going to arrive at? You get what you look for.

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Its a non argument because I'm doing both. I am reading the bill, but its been rewritten so many times I'm honestly getting a bit lost.

Ultimately what I'm saying is that what responsible people do is read the facts and make up their own views on a subject. I don't need my facts predigested.
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  #16  
Old 08-03-2009, 07:47 PM
Bong O. Boi Bong O. Boi is offline
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I can respect this, Trip. And I apologize for my tone in the earlier response. But I stand by the message. The thing is we're not most industrialized countries. The American Experiment is still a unique one. There is nowhere in the world that is USA, jr. We can say we have to be more like Europe, more like Japan, more like Canada, more like whatever. But those things aren't possible. We're a unique culture, with the good and the bad that comes with that.

On the other hand, I'm all for alternatives. The Right is in the wrong for not coming up with any. You've got me there. But the Left is just as wrong for having no alternatives but a scorched Earth policy. But that's part of the bad of the American Experiment. It's a two party system. Sure, there are Greens, Liberaterians, Socialists, Constitutionists and a million other little parties. But they're insignificant. And they always will be, because they're fringe elements. The fact is, to change the System, it has to be within the System. Hitching your wagon to a fringe third party is just spinning your wheels. Write your Congressmen, write your Legislator, write your City Council. Vote. And encourage your friends to vote. I've never been to one of the Tea Parties. Say what you will about them, that movement has scared the piss out of the Establishment. It scares them because these are people who've probably never been involved before. Working within the System and letting the System know they're being watched. Letting them know their cushy gigs are at risk. That's what Americans are supposed to be about. Not kicking back and letting the Government take care of us. They serve at our pleasure. We don't serve at theirs.

Red
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  #17  
Old 08-03-2009, 07:56 PM
Bong O. Boi Bong O. Boi is offline
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I've often wondered at what point the Government got into the marraige business. But as someone going through a divorce, I've come to realize that marraige is a legal contract. I guess it has to be, in this day and age. Real estate, cars, bills...all that. They all have to be legally divided. That's why my new truck is in my mom's name. Sucks, but it is what it is. No reason gays shouldn't have to suffer like the rest of us.

Red
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  #18  
Old 08-03-2009, 07:58 PM
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Red, last night i was watching the series "How the Earth was formed" on Discovery and since we are so fucking small, we think small. Every year I go to the Museum of Natural History in Manhattan because they have a metric scale model of the Universe just to put things into perspective.

You should check it out sometime.

Change, like glaciers and galaxies, move over long periods of time. They appear to be motionless but thats because we are observing them from our own arbitrary scale of reference.

Change is being made everyday and that's the key. Although it appears motionless, from another point of view, it's moving pretty briskly. By doing what I am doing right now, I am a part of history just as you are.

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  #19  
Old 08-03-2009, 08:07 PM
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We believe that because we were if not the originators the largest spreaders of this system. Our culture has everything with how we view ourselves, but if we were always so sure of the path to take why do we have states? To the nationalistic view, the states are individual political labs where ideas are tried and some might be passed nationally. I'd say we take what works in other situations in other countries and consider an American alternative to something that has been proven to work.

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You're absolutely right about that, that's why there are so few term limits and the power can flow in and out of the legislative branch to the executive branch. I advocate not joining any political party until you find one that agrees with you. If I were to join the republican party what good would it do me if half the stuff I'm voting with goes against my interests? Its that situation that got us into a two party system. I vote locally up to the state level, I vote for the president as well- but only for myself because my vote doesn't matter

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Absolutely. The government is like any other organism, it grows and it grows until it meets a force to stop it. My issue with the tea parties was that they were started last year by the Ron Paul people and didn't engage in political based action, they got together and purely and soley demonstrated against the federal budget (the Bush administration Stimulus 1 & 1.5 that everyone has forgotten about). That's not what is going on today, its mostly political party bashing and a stance of NO.
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  #20  
Old 08-03-2009, 08:09 PM
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I absolutely agree, its just a contract. And LOL
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