Obamacare

[towdog]

A link to the bill so those that want can actually read it:

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[ThatHaole]

^^^ Although widely called Obamacare this is simply one bill circulating through the house. There are three others from different committees and while they are admittedly similar, they will all need to be reconciled into one. Although pushing for health care reform, Obama has yet to say "Yes this is the bill I want to sign."

[towdog]

"Obamacare" has a better ring to it than Health Care Reform. Plus, Barry is the one that has been setting deadlines and twisting arms to get ANY bill voted on in a hurry. So no matter what bill eventually gets passed it will be his bill, and his swan song.

[Fever]

I guess I still don't understand why universal health care is so scary.
Especially since it is being presented as more of an option, with the largest financial burden being placed upon corporations to contribute. If you can do better, they are not taking that away.
Funny that it's big pharma that is pushing the anti rallies, etc. and yet the commoners are the ones doing the heavy lifting. It smells exactly like the blue collar guys I remember supporting trickle-down economic theories while their industries are outsourced. Or Joe the plumber talking about his fantasy earnings and taxes.
Fundamentally, why is everyone scared?
What if MediCare was just expanded to higher wage thresholds (with some improvements to part D, etc.), and funded by the equivalent private insurance payments currently made by employers/employees? By all estimations, those current premiums we pay monthly ($970/mo for my family), if redirected into such a system in the form of a 'tax' would provide an excess of funds.
Besides, the argument that people like me would then be paying for 'freeloaders' is bogus, we already do. The poor already receive government 'sponsorship' in the form of Medicare, etc..
I grew up around the VA, and civil service benefits provided through Kaiser, and no one died in my family because of it.

[ThatHaole]

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I am confused as well. I am pretty sure the 45 million uninsured in America would be interested in coverage. Fully 50% of all the bankruptcies in the country are related to health care cost. Obviously the system is not working.

Did you see the televised town hall the other day. Some yahoo got up and said "Keep your government out of my Health Care" (I paraphrase) and the crowd went wild with supportive noises. The congressman then asked who was on Medicare and most of the people raised their hands. What would their response be if the government really did get out of their health care?

The discussion is not about universal health care it is just partisan politics as usual.

Some democrats are bringing in union workers to shout down the people shouting right wing propaganda at these town halls. WTF

EDIT: Here is Sarah Palin bringing some objective, non-inflammatory points to the party:

Palin says Obama's health care plan is 'evil'
By MARK THIESSEN, Associated Press Writer Mark Thiessen, Associated Press Writer 52 mins ago

ANCHORAGE, Alaska – Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin called President Barack Obama's health plan "downright evil" Friday in her first online comments since leaving office, saying in a Facebook posting that he would create a "death panel" that would deny care to the neediest Americans.

"Who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course," the former vice Republican presidential candidate wrote on her Facebook page, which has nearly 700,000 supporters.

"The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their 'level of productivity in society,' whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil," Palin wrote.

An e-mail sent to Palin's spokeswoman to confirm authorship was not immediately returned Friday.

Obama, a Democrat, campaigned on a promise of offering affordable health care to all Americans. He has proposed a system that would include government and private insurers.

Republicans say that private insurers would be unable to compete, leaving the country with only a government-run health program. They warn that could leave Americans with little control over their health care.

Republican criticism has included claims that the reform plans will lead to rationing, or the government determining which medical procedures a patient can have. However, millions of Americans already face rationing, as insurance companies rule on procedures they will cover.

Denying coverage for certain procedures might increase under proposals to have a government-appointed agency identify medicines and procedures best suited for various conditions.

In the posting, Palin encouraged her supporters to be engaged in the debate. "Nationalizing our health care system is a point of no return for government interference in the lives of its citizens. If we go down this path, there will be no turning back," Palin wrote.

"Let's stop and think and make our voices heard before it's too late," the posting said.

Palin resigned as Alaska governor on July 26 with nearly 18 months left in her term. She cited not only the numerous ethics complaints that had been filed against her also her wish not to be a lame duck after the first-term governor decided not to seek re-election next year.

Palin, popular with conservatives in the Republican party, has said she wants to build a right-of-center coalition, and there is speculation she will seek the presidency in 2012. In the two weeks since she resigned, Palin has made only one public appearance, giving a Second Amendment rights speech last Saturday before a gun owners group in Anchorage.

Palin also has been largely silent before Friday's post. She was a voracious user of the social networking site Twitter, and promised to keep her supporters updated with a new private account after she left office. But that hasn't happened, leaving some of her fans begging for updates in the past two weeks.

[towdog]

I'm not against universal health care. In fact I fully support it IF we are given all of the facts and have time to digest it, have a way to pay for it, and are fairly certain that it won't further bankrupt our country in trying to pay for it. What I am against is our government trying to shove it down our throats in an attempt to keep those very facts from us. This administration is burying us further and further into debt with their spend first, pay for it later attitude. We don't have any money to pay for more fucked up plans.

There are two solutions to make universal health care affordable that Congress will never touch. The first is obvious.....they must be forced to be under the same exact plan. The second is tort reform. Hospitals, doctors, drug companies, and medical equipment manufacturers have to spend fortunes on liability insurance to cover themselves against bull shit law suits. And in turn they pass those costs to the patients. Sue, sue, sue. Half the commercials on tv during the day are one law firm or another offering to make you money if it hurt when the doctor took the splinter out of your finger.

It's not providing health care that costs money. It's having to have your ass covered after you provide the care that costs money.

A country that is "supposedly" as prosperous as ours should not have anyone wanting for health care. It should be automatic. But it shouldn't be paid for on the backs of the people with more taxes.

[ThatHaole]

^^^ You make strong points and I agree with much of what you say.

Having posted far too many words above I will say "Thank you" for the constructive dialog and leave it at that for now.

(i'm not going to pretend to have read a single one of any of the posts in this thread so forgive me if this point has already been made)

Not trying to add fuel to your fire because i think that's it's completely stupid to waste your time arguing political issues on DSF of all places for chrissakes. on DSF? really? REALLY? I also don't know or pretend to know anything about what's going on with your Obama or whatever the hell he's trying to do now BUT....

I figured i'd look for some unbiased statistics on your so called "best in the world healthcare system" as it is right now....

According to The World Health Organization United States' Healthcare system ranks #37th in the world when taking into account metrics like lifespan, per capita gdp, total education and the standard of living, etc.

Even if you don't agree (and i'm sure you won't as i am waiting for the chants of *USA is number one* to start) with the World Health Organization there is another organization you should listen to: The United Nations.

The United Nations ranks the USA as #15 in the world in their Human Development Indices.

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1. Iceland
2. Norway
3. Canada
4. Australia
5. Ireland
6. Netherlands
7. Sweden
8. Japan
9. Luxembourg
10. Switzerland
11. France
12. Finland
13. Denmark
14. Austria
15. United States
16. Spain
17. Belgium
18. Greece
19. Italy
20. New Zealand

So the point i'm trying to make here is that maybe it is time for an overhaul of the healthcare system. A country as powerful and rich bankrupt as the USA should have heathcare that is in the top 5 at least. To improve the healthcare system i guess some changes would be in order.

That's all i'm trying to say... that's all i'm gettin' at. Sorry if i really just didn't add anything of value to this thread. (not really but i feel better having said it)

[Predator24]

There is no option if the Messiah gets his way.

He want's single payer (tax payer) coverage.

The health insurance HMO's (Started by "The swimmer" Ted Kennedy BTW) can not compete since the government can print it's own money and does not have to show a profit like private business do.

What will happen to the thousands who work at Blue Cross Blue Shield who lose their jobs then?

What happens to the private hospitals soon thereafter?????

America is rejecting this as well as Obama's policies.

Those Congress members who vote for this will be thrown out of congress in 2010 because this is serious business to those like myself who have serious health concerns and we are not giving up on stopping this.

[DontSnatch]

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OH NO!!! those poor doctors making $700,000 working as medical mercenaries.. what will they do?