Is the American Memory Really This Short?! - Page 3 - The Drunken stepFORUM - A place to discuss your worthless opinions

RvP · #21 12-12-2008, 06:59 AM

I thought you guys only bought SUV's so you can put some massive spinning rims and bouncing kit on it?

Frothy Afterbirth · #22 12-12-2008, 12:09 PM

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Didn't pass the Senate so FAIL... for now.

The Godfather · #23 12-12-2008, 12:34 PM

Not so fast big boy ...

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Frothy Afterbirth · #24 12-12-2008, 12:51 PM

Shit, fucking Treasury. Fuck the big 3

I'm looking at Lexus for my transportation needs.

Trips · #25 12-12-2008, 06:36 PM

They shouldn't give them a fucking dime until they go into bankruptcy. Every time a new american car is purchased 4k of the price goes to pay for an insane pension. Let them go into bankruptcy so they can renegotiate all contracts and end the retarded economic circumstances.

strommsarnac · #26 12-12-2008, 09:16 PM

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Why was everyone in government all for bailing out banks who were screwing over people? Why were they all for bailing out people who KNEW they wouldn't be able to afford payments long term?

Why are our politicians against bailing out the three companies responsible for providing our country it's supply of vehicles during every war/action during the 20th/21st century? Why are they willing to screw more than 12 million people out of jobs simply because they're related to the US auto industry? Why are they willing to cripple Mid-West states by not bailing the US auto industry out, yet they're willing to literally bail out millions who insist on living in areas which constantly get devastated by natural disasters?

Personally, I believe the root of it is simply that the US auto makers don't kowtow to politicians. They don't hold politicians by the balls financially (most would have lost MILLIONS in investments). They don't supply most politicians vehicles anymore, most use foreign vehicles and not the lesser expensive models either.

All one has to do is look at the history of politicians giving away our home grown industries to foreign companies and powers. Politicians have made this mess that the US is in, NOT our bankers and auto industry. Politicians forced the US into being part of the "world economy" and ignored the reality that the money would go elsewhere. Now they're scrambling to present the illusion that it's not their fault, it's everyone elses fault.

I'd love to see our politicians treat themselves the way they treat our auto industry, et al. But that'd mean they'd have to take pay cuts, loose spending allowances, get their own vehicles, stop flying on private planes, but their own clothes, take less vacations, etc. It'll never happen though, they've got it too good and there's no reason for them to change. THEY've got us all by the balls and sadly, most Americans don't have a clue.

Trips · #27 12-13-2008, 01:12 AM

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Thats why. Really bad leadership has led them to become extremely efficient. Bankruptcy doesn't mean they close down, bankruptcy means they get to refinance, renegotiate and get a much needed restructuring.

strommsarnac · #28 12-13-2008, 11:29 AM

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So, people who've retired and are due what they were promised are supposed to suffer because people NOW think that they're getting too much? That's like if you put a ton of money into your pension and after the fact you're told you'll only get half. How would you feel?

The facts behind this are the US auto industry has stood behind it's human workers. Foreign auto companies came into the US with NO workers, built mostly automated factories where almost no one has to work and pays those workers crap with low benefits. I know this because I have friends working for Honda and Toyota. Not to mention as soon as those companies come up with a machine to do someone's work, that person is fired and their pension isn't usually fully vested.

People need to look at the whole story, not just the sensationalistic BIASED reports.

Frothy Afterbirth · #29 12-13-2008, 12:33 PM

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About every large company in America has changed or eliminated their employee's pension, 401K contributions, and medical benefits so why shouldn't the auto industry just be the exception? The point is those high legacy benefits have made US Automakers susceptible to strong free market competition from the get go. True in that Foreign automakers in the US started from scratch and didn't have to deal with prior legacy benefits and pensions but the American automaker attitude has not really changed since the first downfall in the 1970's and they sure has hell haven't been keeping up to ensure their companies future. Their arrogant corporate polices from the top and from the unions. Unions have fucked themselves over too many times by going on strike demanding much more for their selfish reasons and not see that their real future is for company to stay competitive.

Critics have warned about US Auto mfg of putting all their eggs in one cart by solely propagating trucks and SUV sales since the mid 90's. While the Japanese, Germans, Koreans, and even the French, Italians went a different route for more efficiency in their products and production lines. They too are hurting in this world market downturn but are a far better position to ride through the storm. US Automakers are only reaping what they sow and its now royally bitch slapping them in the face.

There are callings for American auto co's to file for chapter 11 which has positive and negative results depending on how you look at it in that by doing so
1) They will be able to get rid of pensions, freezing up enough capital to repay the bankruptcy and restructure.
2) Can be dicey for foreign car makers that have joint ventures with the big 3. They will have to spend time and money in the courts trying to recoup whatever they have already invested which can take years or a decade. That is too much of a headache.

Trips · #30 12-13-2008, 12:35 PM

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I definitely see your point buddy. I have several people I'm close to that rely on their pension. But if it were feasible to pay that pension out and keep these companies competitive it should be done. But the bottom line is it isn't. I'm not saying cut off their pensions at all, just it needs to be renegotiated to something that would allow for a comfortable standard of living plus keep these companies alive in a flat world.