yo fellas, very interesting results and comments, lets not make this personal. remember, if you are going to debate lets just leave it at that, no personal attacks. debates are won with facts and scholarly references (sorry for sounding like such a nerd).

i personally would've voted for ron paul.

Just wanted to rant that this whole 2-party system is what the founding fathers wanted to avoid. no one person can believe in every value of their respected party.
Remember that these elected officials work for us, not the other way around but thats where the US has lost its way. we treat them like royalty instead of employees who should look out for our interest instead of PAC's and corporations. WE gave these people their jobs and they should be thanking us. so instead of us bitching about them, we should just vote them out.

An interesting story was during a conference with prime minister tony blair and g. bush. when blair entered the room, reporters from both countries were sitting down and thinking nothing of it. when bush came in, all of the u.s. reporters stood up and waited until bush raised his hand and motioned for them to sit down. the british were looking at them like wtf? Bush is an elected official who works for the PEOPLE, not the other way around.


*shotgunner thanx for your military service. don't want to single you out but you and people might be interested in reading about the MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX and the man who warned us about it during his farewell speech(general and president dwight eisenhower). if your idea that universal health care equals marxism, would say the say thing about our fire/police service as well as our *free schools (k-12)?

Well, I hate to say it, but I have a very good understanding of the constitution. I also understand the limited powers of the president and basically everything you closed your eyes and hoped really hard for, falls in the domain of congress, not the president. (someone else may have pointed this out already, so if so, I'll reiterate).

Also, if you're going to be a basic mouthpiece for the typical liberal BS, maybe you should see the impact of those desires.

After a highly recommended civics course, I recommend you read what truly affects the price of oil (and after you read that and you still think this war has a major impact on the price of oil, read the information again, more slowly). I will provide a starting point. it's called supply and demand. And secondly, it's not those wily spectators either.

Second, if you want to bitch about the war, look to congress. We have fought a limited war because congress has not formally declared this a war? In know, it seems like a war, with all the shooting and such, but a formal declaration allows for one essential component...collateral damage. Our boys are dying because congress is too damn worried about their fragile images to do what's right (and THAT is something you think they would have learned in the Vietnam "war").

As for health care, if you want to improve that, get government the fuck out. All these regulations...protecting the people...drive health care costs through the roof. Let the free market do what it does best and costst will come down. Why can't I buy my health care from a company in another state? Hmmm...ahhh...the government prohibits it. Let insurance companies compete for my dollars. Instead of forcing people into health care, give them the true freedom to choose their own. Costs will come down, quickly.

This made me think of a quote from E.B. White. "You can form opinions without having to get the facts."

No offense, but if you are getting your information from the news, good luck to ya. That's like trying to get information on a car from a car salesperson. I am lucky though. My work affords me plenty of time to read.

And raising taxes on the wealthy will solve that?
Raising taxes will hurt the economy more.
Agreed.

This is one of the issues where I fall under the Libertarian view.

Check out John Stossel's articles on health care. Very interesting.

Sadly my job does not. I have very little time too read news publications. But my question is, which one gives the real info out and how would you know?

Congress will never fix anything that they don't rely on, or won't rely on when out of office. There will never be universal affordable health care because they get it free already, and could afford it before they were elected. Social Security and Medicare will never be fixed because Congressmen don't need it when they retire. They're set for life with a retirement most would kill for after only one term in office. Energy prices will never be fixed because Congressmen don't pay for their gas, and frankly oil companies contribute to the campaigns of most every one of them when they run for office. They aren't gonna bite the hand that feeds. The economy will never be fixed because Congressmen can afford to pay whatever price they have to for goods and services since we foot the bill for most of it.

The best thing that could to happen to American Government is for the price of gas to hit $10.00 a gallon. Only then will the people pull their heads out of their political asses and create real change and the only change that will heal America.....replacing every Congressman that continually lines his pockets and bank accounts with the blood and sweat of the American people, with representatives that will be held accountable for real change. Replace every Congressman that stands at a podium and tells us that we are too stupid to know what is good for us, with one that knows what we need because he is one of us.

We need a Constitutional Amendment to cut the Congressional pay in half and require 12 years in office for full retirement. A retirement that is based on the same formulas they use when calculating military retirement. You make those people live like the rest of America and they will damn sure fucking fix it.

No President in recent history has EVER fixed anything he promised he would. NONE. Congress is the Legislative branch, not the President. You fix Congress, you fix America.

You're absolutely right. We need more pot smoking hippes and beef jerky makin good 'ole boys in congress. We can't even allow congressmen and women to think that they belong in a social class above us.

I personally think that we'd be best off if, in addition to Towdog's changes, we got rid of the electoral college, abolished all of the mindless paternalistic legislation out there and severely limited the federal government's role in our everyday affairs. They can collect taxes, they can defend us and they can be the force that unites our fifty states, but that should be it. The diversity between states used to be what was so great about America... but alas, no more.

wow......well fucking said Jester........i heard myself in a lot of what you mentioned there. I was having this discussion today, gotta go 3rd party....I can not in my right mind vote for either of those two